Versatile programs from drums/techniques to achieve that "sound"

[Twoism IX]

Hey everyone. I've read the site for a while now, along with the forums, but recently I've decided to join in on the discussion so I can hopefully progress as a musician.

My current set up is really basic because I'm essentially just now starting out in terms of software-based songwriting. Right now I run Reason 4 with ReCycle along with an M-Audio 61es USB keyboard.

The ends I want to achieve are and will always be varied. I love hip-hop, electronica, IDM, rap, etc. and thus really want to try and find ways to achieve each and all of these types of sounds. However, I have such a limited knowledge on the effects and EQing process in Reason that I am often left really frustrated. The stock sounds in Reason for the most part are lacking and sound, well, like they were made on a computer. I need to find ways to advance the sound with out mindlessly twiddling knobs. I'd much rather have an idea of what it is I am doing to the sounds.

So, my question is what are some of the basic techniques you use to achieve a more authentic sound, and in which programs? I'm looking to do all kinds of things, so while in some cases I'll be sampling drum breaks, in others I'll look to construct my own beat because that's what the vibe calls for.

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long-ish post.

[Downstroke]

Whatsup 2ism.

First up, the set up you're using is fine, I'm a Reason/Recycle head myself and trust me, you can do pretty much anything you want with that (except record audio, for that you'll need to Rewire a separate DAW sequencer, but I just use Garageband for that which works just fine.

Regarding specific techniques, that's a bit of a vague question. I have no formal music technology training, and everything I know, I've kind of figured out along the way, and I'm by no means an expert, but my knowledge pretty much doubles every six months, just purely by experimenting, fiddling, and reading forums like this one.

One suggestion I can make, is don't rely on stock sounds. Now I'm an old school vinyl digger, so that's where nearly all my sounds come from, but I always layer up my sounds with other things to hear what happens. For example, with drums, I'll normally load up a rex file of a chopped up break into NN-XT and expand the sampler out so I can edit the individual sounds. What I'll often do is duplicate the zone where the kick is, apply it to another key, then play with the filter so you can really fatten it up. I'll then move it back over to the same key as the original kick so when I play it, it will play both zones and the kick will have that low end thud. Also, with snares, I do the same as before but this time I'll take the duplicate zone and set it's output to channel 3-4 and route that through the Scream distortion feature and add some real grit to the snare. This has to then be patched to another channel in the mixer but you can really get experimental with this.

Also, with loops, the same trick I use for the kick can be used for getting those low end theory basslines working cos you just cut out all the high end frequencies and you've got that classic phat sound happening. You can layer this under the main sample so it just sounds like it's just been really pumped up or on it's own as a bassline.

I hope some more dudes contribute to this thread, cos I'm sure there's a lot of guys in your position as well as some of the more seasoned guys on here who are always up for learning new techniques.

[Twoism IX]

Thanks Downstroke for the tips.

Basically right now the only technique I know to get a fuller and bassier drum is by layering 3 to 4 different drum kits on the REDRUM, messing with the compression and parametric EQ and then programming roughly the same sequence out. Of course, that ends up sounding too robotic because I'm not banging it out live as I record. I do intend to start digging, but with no turntable and a pitiful three records, right now I'm just trying to learn some techniques outside of that realm. But I do know the importance of digging, very much so. If I intend on doing anything hip hop I can guarantee I'll be doing a ton of sampling.

[Downstroke]

Ok, here's something you could do. Personally I rarely use Redrum except for adding the odd 808 kick or some crashes here & there, mainly I use NN-XT for my drums. However, you can use your midi keyboard for laying your drum patterns down rather than plotting them in the sequencer or programming Redrum. Personally I feel NN-XT gives you a lot more options to edit the individual hits you're playing with (like adding low pass like I said), but also, don't be afraid to practice laying down high hats with the quantise off, layering snares just slightly off from each other so you get more crunch. I always felt redrum, if used like a drum machine, did sound too mechanical, so I got away from it, but is usefull for stacking high hats etc on top of the beats you're using already.

BTW, good luck with the digging, but in the meantime, you might find yourself experimenting with what Reason already has in the box, and flipping that just as good as any dusty breaks you might find.

[jrg227]

to add to some of that knowledge...

the only effects I use on drums are as follows: Parametric EQ and Reverb

Whether it is a full drum loop you're using, or just individual sounds, simply mess around with the different EQs to bring out a snappy snare and a big kick. I actually didn't know about layering the kick at differnt pitches...that could be quite dope.

as for the reverb, it makes the drums sound more realistic and gives em some thump. what else do ppl rec'm? this forum is too tighttt.

-guffstar

[p.illa]

I'm actually taking notes of everything cuz I'm still new to Reason, but yeh ones you find some drum sounds (of a record of course) you should use adobe audition to reverb your sounds. And another thing that I've learned which most of yall prolly know already is; each redrums that you use should have it's own mixer so that you can mess around with the EQ for each drum sounds...not from the main mixer.

[Twoism IX]

Yeah I'm figuring out slowly that REDRUM is not the way to go unless adding a little bit here and there.

I guess I just need to tinker with some cut up drums in the NN-XT and try to get them sounding right. I'm thinking of getting a book though on using Reason because the main thing I want to learn is how exactly each effect, tool, etc. can be used. I think learning the technical side is going to help me achieve the right results, plus I think artistically I'd have more pride in my stuff if it was achieved with some sort of knowledge of how I was achieving that sound.

Keep the tips coming guys, thanks again.

[Downstroke]

Oh yeah, there's some pretty dope drum loops in Reason's soundbank for Dr.Rex, so you can play with them, just manually playing the individual shots off the keys, and come up with your own patterns. I don't tend to use Dr.Rex cos I find it limiting, but maybe I'm missing something. Oh yeah, there's a ton of tutorials over at Propellerhead Software - Discovering Reason. It all looks a bit technical, but the info's there.

[Glorydayz22]

Yeah,if you using the redrum,the best thing to do is to rewire it so one sound to every one channel on the mixer that way the sounds sound better and you can eq one sound at a time instead of them all,as far as the nnxt though,Ive never tried using that for drums.All I use that for is my sounds if Im making a original beat or layering my sample stuff,oh and also my basslines sometimes.I got a question though,when I make my basslines in the reason program they sound alright,but when I take em out and start sequencing my songs the bassline sounds all stupid and light and just wack,why?Should I use compression on my basslines or something?

[Twoism IX]

Glorydayz, I've seen that problem come up a lot. The way it sounds in reason might be hard as hell and really pounding the lows, but when it gets exported it sounds like it's been played on my laptop speakers. I've read some stuff that says you have to do quite a bit of EQing to get it right, hope you figure it out.